The Trus Joist Story - Don't tell me it can't be done
Hi, this is Ain't That Something, and I'm your host, Levi Smith, CEO of Franklin Building Supply. We're an employee owned building material supply company headquartered in beautiful Boise, Idaho. I'm a former ranch kid from Texas who found his way to Idaho and into leading this storied company. We're proud to be part of the fabric of communities we operate in and want to help share stories of other companies doing the same across this great state. In each episode of Ain't That Something, I interview founders or leaders about the stories of companies you may be surprised to learn have either had their start in Idaho or now call Idaho home.
Levi:In every interview, you'll hear about an interesting cast of characters, learn about daunting obstacles, and be inspired by the persistence it took to succeed. Get ready to be surprised and entertained with each episode of Ain't That Something.
Gary:This is not for us, not for your children, but for your grandchildren. And as I've aged, you, you dated me with that forty years as I've aged. I think about that. I have grandchildren and wood is part of a resource that will graduate to my grandchildren.
Levi:Today, I talk with Gary Schweizer, a longtime engineer for TrustJoyce, a division of Weyerhaeuser. We explore the story of how two guys in the 1950s in Boise, Idaho ended up creating or helping create the engineered wood products category as we know it today. Now there are some technical aspects to this story, so I just want to encourage you if you've ever enjoyed, I don't know, the basement of your house or the second story that relies on floor joists. And this story explores how some of the systems that we rely on today came to be. Well, Gary, I am delighted to have you on the Ain't That Something podcast today.
Levi:And we're gonna get into a lot of particulars about a subject matter that you know really well engineered wood products, truss joist, Weyerhaeuser, you've got a long and storied career here. But before we get into those things, I think it's helpful to know a bit about you.
Gary:All right. Well, you. Number one, thank you for the opportunity to talk about trust, Joyce. So I'm a structural engineer, Levi. And one of the really neat things, that engineers are brought into the earth for, really, is to solve problems.
Gary:And so I started with TrustJoyce back in 1984, and that's where I think that problem solving ability really showed up. A little bit about me. I'm from Ohio, so I'm an Ohio State University, graduate, so a Buckeye.
Levi:So you had a good year. I mean, college football, that that whole system worked out well for you, didn't it?
Gary:It did at that.
Levi:My Texas Longhorns did not fare quite as well. We got close again, but didn't get it done in the end. So congrats to your Buckeyes.
Gary:So I am originally from Ohio, got a Bachelor of Science at, Ohio State University, and then also got a master's in, business administration at the University of Dayton. So that's kind of my educational background. I have two grown boys. My wife and I, are empty nesters nesters in Concord, North Carolina suburb out of Charlotte.
Levi:Okay.
Gary:Levi, I basically moved with a job, I'm gonna say a promotion, in 1987. So I am officially a North Carolina native now.
Levi:You've been there for a while.
Gary:I'm still called Yankee though, by some of the people in the neighborhood.
Levi:That'll probably never go away. Just That's true. There's something about native born versus transplant. Doesn't matter how many decades you got. It's probably true just about anywhere.
Levi:Let's back up. You mentioned in the eighties, you know, that's when you, started work with, with TrustJoyce. So you have the opportunity to meet and work alongside two important individuals and characters in the story of Trust Choice, even, becoming what it was not only in the 80s, but what it is today. So can you share with us a little bit about the individuals, Troutner and Thomas, who were, the individuals that really vented I joist as we know him now and we'll get into what exactly that is. Just I'm interested in the characters for a minute.
Levi:What do you remember about meeting them? What impressions did they make? Help us just understand those two guys a little
Gary:Yeah. So Harold Thomas was a consummate salesman, and I think he would have been successful selling anything. He just was able to understand market needs and then really kind of drop back and, Hey, what can you do to solve this market need? Problem solving. Art Trottner was an inventor.
Gary:I believe he had architectural degree, but he was really an entrepreneur. Very eccentric, Levi, you know, just kind of a lab nerd, if you will. Okay. And so in my humble opinion, they are an odd couple, and that's what made them tick. There are stories that, during belt tightening things that, there was too much long distance phone calls, so they would install a pay phone to limit some of Art Trottner's calls.
Levi:It didn't sound like there's much overlap between these guys. They they both have their own lanes, but the combination ended up proving, you know, kinda magical.
Gary:One plus one equals three in that case. Absolutely.
Levi:So what I've heard and read about their story, help me flesh this out a little bit is that if we back up maybe to the 1950s, Shrotter has this idea about a joist, a floor joist. Anyway, he ends up talking with Thomas about it, and they end up kind of going back and forth on this. They're maybe not always receptive to each other's ideas. They eventually though come to see it the same way, you know, they end up, you know, creating this I joist product, but there's a lot of, you know, this really goes back to the to the early 50s. And them really just being inventors and entrepreneurs, as you alluded to, and working on ideas that no one had really figured out at the time.
Gary:Yeah, in 1960, they basically incorporated and called it Trust Deck Corporation. And it was really roof decks, if you will. And along the way, they modified certain things. They had very spartan sales. They modified certain things, and that developed that culture of innovation that eventually became TrustJoyce.
Levi:So we may have lost some people right there where they're wondering, what are we even talking about? So I want to back up. This is a world that you've been in for decades, right? Help us understand when we talk about, you know, the big category of engineered wood products, people might hear, you know, the acronym EWP, or we're talking about products like I joists and floor joists and, you know, roof and decking. Give us a little bit of a primer.
Levi:What in the world is EWP? You know, what are joists? How does this kind of work in the system of construction? Help us learn something today.
Gary:All right. Well, EWP stands for engineered wood products. Sometimes some people will call the truss joists group engineered lumber products. What I think of when we talk about engineered, I think of wood fiber. In the West, Doug fir being the primary lumber species.
Gary:As this was harvested and old growth trees were being basically sequestered, and now you were generating in second growth trees and that you had more defects. And engineered lumber will take those that fiber, that raw material, that Doug fir or other species, and it does veneer or wood strands, and it will randomize those defects. So in a way, Levi, you take a round log and you reconstitute that with resins into an engineered wood product. And that engineered wood product has those defects randomized, and that's the key to engineer wood products.
Levi:So it's a it's a great way to take to take existing natural resources that might otherwise be compromised. And to, as you say, of reconstitute those into a product with the application of resin, usually heat pressure, other elements as well in the manufacturing process. And now you've got a new product made from those natural elements, but that has other performance metrics that allows it to be used in, you know, from from joist to decking to, you know, you know, other other use cases and make good good use of these of these timbers.
Gary:Very well stated. And I would classify a TJI as a little different. It uses those engineered wood products, okay? But the I joist is unique by itself. So I, as an engineer, when I went to Ohio State, you have steel wide flanges.
Gary:And the reason you have a steel wide flange rather than a rectangular section is you want the strength on the outer parts of the depth. That works more efficiently in bending and in stiffness, Levi. Trees, you can't harvest and cut into eye sections, so that's where the fabrication of an eye joist. That was just an earth shattering thing that you could take a wood product and make it into an I joist. And that was Art Trottner's idea.
Levi:So the fact that you could go away from what before had to be solved with steel in this joist, you could do this with the natural fiber product. I mean, again, with the resins and the manufacturing process, but you could make this all out of wood essentially. That was the big breakthrough and the from Troutner and his work with Thomas.
Gary:Yeah. And just the, you know, a rectangular section, two by 10 or a two by 12, isn't necessarily efficient in a floor system or roof system. You want the outer fibers to be an I joist. And so that's why it just became more efficient. And then you can cut bigger holes and all of those things were developed off of that initial concept of making an I joist out of wood.
Levi:Interesting. So let's back up. Said in 1960, they form TrustDeck, which is the precursor to what we know TrustJoyce to be now. We'll get into a little bit of that transition. They go into business together, they create TrustDeck, but they don't stop innovating.
Levi:One of the products that they develop, I think by the early 70s is micro lambs. Can you talk a little bit about what is a micro lamb and we're going to get into its first application, which is really interesting and has deep ties to Idaho in just a minute. But what is what is a micro lamb and why was that innovation meaningful as well as they as they came out with that in the seventies?
Gary:And again, the reason for it, I think the problem was solid sawn had declining quality. And so when you go to a plywood mill, if you will, they will take round logs and they will peel those logs into one eighth inch plus or minus thickness veneer. And what Truss Joyce did, what Art Trottner invented, was taking that veneer and splicing it under heat and resin and reconstituting that in a longitudinal fashion. And so you could take a 1.6 or a 15E solid sawn, Doug fir tree lumber and reconstitute that into 2.0E micro lamp. So it's longitudinally aligned veneer, and that became a much better high quality flange product.
Gary:So initially, that I joist had a plywood web and solid sawn flanges. Microlam allowed that to become a Microlam and eventually OSB as the web stock. Microlam also was a great beam product, stronger. And so again, that became an alternative to Glulam and an alternative to other products.
Levi:So these products are just fundamentally, ones, solving gaps in the market and creating opportunities for wood products to be used in ways they couldn't have otherwise been used and construction, whether it's residential, commercial. But but that's fundamentally those are the problems they're they're solving. They're creating new products that just, you know, it's hard. I think when something's been around for decades, we take for granted that this has been around for decades, but it takes, you know, courage and creativity and and, you know, other attributes for someone like Art Troutner and Harold Thomas to say, we think we can make something out of this that's never existed before. And we think we can take this to market and we're going to get to their first real, I think, as you described, of betting the farm moment on we believe in these products, you know, so deeply, we're going to show you what it can do.
Levi:But, you know, that that's the spirit entrepreneurs in the 50s and 60s in Boise, Idaho to create these products that are used all over today, and that we don't even really often think about their origin stories. They're just so ubiquitous and and common in usage.
Gary:And what I have such a high degree of respect for in Art and Harold is I believe Harold would see these problems, and Art Trottner was so proactive, he would solve those problems.
Levi:Harold might mention a problem the morning of, and then Art might have a solution that afternoon.
Gary:Yeah. And there were failures. And I think that's critical too. When you develop products, some things don't always work out. And that's, I guess, one of life's, lessons that we all should.
Gary:Those two stuck with it. And they had times where they were prosperous, and then they had times where they really had to do some belt tightening and some soul searching.
Levi:Pay phones.
Gary:That might have been one.
Levi:You never actually used one of the pay phones and drop the quarter.
Gary:I did not. I'm not that old.
Levi:Well, let's continue this sort of exploring this timeline. So again, 1950s, Art and Harold are working on this idea. They end up forming Trustech as a company in 1960. They end up pushing this even further as they continue innovating. To your point, you know, part of the, know, of innovating is also having some failed experiments on along the way, if you don't have some failed experiments, probably pushing hard enough.
Levi:They're, they're navigating that as inventors, entrepreneurs, business people, they develop micro lambs, but then they get to this bet the farm moment. So University of Idaho is going to build a dome, it's going to be a place that they're primarily gonna play football, and they don't want, you know, the games to be canceled because of inclement weather and snow, and it gets gets a little cold up there. And so they're gonna build this Kibbe dome. An architect comes up with the design. It's not Art or Henry's design, but this is going to be a use case for micro lambs.
Levi:And I think you have kind of characterized this as a bet the farm moment. I would tend to agree this was a fairly audacious use case for micro lambs, a product that was really brand new. So can you talk a little bit about how they did that? How the Kibbe Dome is even constructed? It's really this, I think, kind of a first flamboyant usage of this product to kind of show off what it can do.
Gary:Yeah. So I think I'll walk back a little bit. They had developed what was called an open web truss, which would be the initial one was two by four cords with steel tubular webs. So in a truss format, those tubes would be flattened at their ends and connected to the wood truss with pins.
Levi:So
Gary:that was, I think, by itself, a novel wood steel truss type of concept. Similar to a bar joist, Levi, where a bar joist would be all metal, this was wood cords. It obviously was easier in a residential, commercial application where you have wood decking, plywood, OSB decking. That concept, though, married with Microlam, was pole vaulted. And I use that word pole vaulted to accent how significant.
Gary:That Kibbe dome was a 400 foot span, and these were huge trusses. I think they were seven, eight feet in-depth.
Levi:If you look at pictures of it today, they're it's it's it looks crazy. I mean, they're they're they're huge trusses.
Gary:It would be a significant project today in 02/2025. This is a football stadium, still used.
Levi:Right. But a 400 foot span with these wood trusses and microlamps.
Gary:And this was before my time, but TrussJoyce not only manufactured these, they helped engineer that structure. So they were in the design and manufacturing, and then I'll take it a step further, they were involved with the construction. So design, manufacturing, and construction. And to think that this happened in that 7475 era is remarkable. I never knew about it.
Gary:You know, heck, I was still in high school and in college. Levi, this won the American Society of Civil Engineering Award in 1976. And when you look at other past recipients, there are things like the Golden Gate Bridge, maybe the World Trade Center.
Levi:St. Louis Arch.
Gary:Those type of structures. So you talk about putting TrustJoyce, Boise, and I the University of Idaho on the map. I think that does it.
Levi:And and I mean, if you back up in time and imagine these two guys, the audacity to say we we can do this, and it can be done with this product. We can do this 400 foot span. I know this product's not in a lot of applications, but trust us on this. It takes a lot to do that. And for them to just, as you said, get, you know, really involved and dig in and hands on in this project to bring this to life, not only did they end up creating this impressive structure that was impressive at its time, and it's still impressive today, which is one of the things that's true of those others you listed, right?
Levi:They they're timeless. You look at the Golden Gate Bridge or, you know, the Gateway Arch, and it's still impressive. And to your point, it'd still be impressive to build the Kibbe Dome today, you know, where the University of Idaho Vandals, play football. But they did that in the early seventies. Help us understand how that, you know, maybe kind of catapulted them forward in terms of credibility around those products and what, you know, TrustDeck and what became TrustJoyce could could do and and and what they were coming up with at that time.
Gary:Well, I think it's fair to to think you know, now we think of these products, TrustJoyce products in a residential, whether it's single family, multifamily. The market back then was more commercial. So it would be warehouses, it would be schools, it would be auditoriums. And you use the word credibility. We could do a marketing piece today with that KibbeDome.
Gary:And that provided, wow, we've got expertise here.
Levi:It proved what could be done.
Gary:Absolutely.
Levi:After they get the Kibbe dome done, and now they've got this reference project that's just kind of a Harold, as you said, just a consummate salesperson. He just, you know, went around maybe with the picture of the Kibbe Dome and said, we did this, so we can handle your project. Would have. It's your point. It was more focused on commercial, but they did start to get into residential.
Levi:Here, we kind of have this story of trust, trust deck, trust joist intersecting with Franklin Building Supply, because by the time we get to the late 70s, they're trying to build relationships with dealers like Franklin Building Supply to become stocking dealers, meaning that they will carry this product regularly so that builders can use it. I think 1978 Franklin Building Supply is one of the first stocking dealers in The US carrying this product, but help us kind of understand how this product started to make its way into more homes and more residential construction.
Gary:And I think, again, that's the Harold Thomas. And by that time, the sales representatives, very aggressive. I want to step back a moment, Levi, the engineers of the company, probably more conservative. And maybe let me eliminate the probably more conservative.
Levi:Just call it what it is, conservative.
Gary:And, hey, this can't be done. And I will forever remember within that first month, I met Art Trottner in Boise at one of the testing labs, if you will, and he was ripping another engineer. And the comment that stuck in my mind is, Don't tell me it can't be done. Figure it out. And he walked off.
Gary:So we have this, discussion, if you will. Don't tell me that it can't be done. Figure it out. And I think that's the kind of the the thought process as TJIs were rolled into the dealer program and and MicroLam into the dealer program. There was a skepticism, Levi, that I have back then when I first joined the company that, you know, will the dealers be able to handle the design of of these products?
Gary:Will TrustJoyce Corporation get undue liability?
Levi:And I think you you do a nice job of really explaining how how different the perspective can be from the inventor entrepreneur who is always pushing the envelope. Yes. Essentially working backwards, always asking why can't it be done? But then as an organization grows and develops and has something worth protecting and there's a risk of losing something, it naturally tends to become more risk adverse. It tends to become more conservative in its approach.
Levi:And it sounded like there was a bit of a collision there, you know, between Art Trottner, who had helped invent these products that you know, are being sold and, and pushing engineers. And he came at it from one perspective, and then he's kind of bumping up against a now more developed organization and team that saying, wait, wait a minute here, there's a there's a lot to be potentially lost here. Have you thought about this risk, or I'm not sure we can get this done. That collision was kind of taking place in the 70s and 80s.
Gary:And that's well worded as a collision. And I think some of that's natural conflict. As an engineer, one of the things that I have an oath to is public safety. So if we're doing products, that risk has to be a very measured risk. I have to be confident that we can do this.
Gary:I have to have confidence in our products and in the design. That's part of that conservatism, I think, of engineers.
Levi:But I mean, part of what you're hitting on here is that, and I don't want to sort of overplay this, but absent an art and herald, the company maybe as it became, came to be, you know, especially in the 80s or 90s, they probably pass on a project like the Kibbe Dome. There's too many unknowns. That's too risky. What if that fails? Right?
Levi:And to your point, as an engineer, you have an obligation around safety and to the public and not to suggest that they were just dismissive of that, but they had some unique sort of energy and confidence and bravado around trying to accomplish some things that maybe other people thought were impossible. And some of that is what even led to these products getting developed in the first place, someone challenging some well held assumptions and being willing to gamble a little bit. Is part of being an entrepreneur is gambling in a way that I think some other people in different points of their career with different backgrounds feel really uncomfortable with.
Gary:And I think the key in overcoming some of those obstacles is to have great talent. And that's what TrustJoyce started developing. And I think I used the word think tank in Boise, Idaho. We developed a think tank of engineers, wood scientists, chemists, and mechanical engineers so that all of these products that aren't invented could eventually be consistently manufactured and delivered to a customer, whether that would be Franklin Building Supply as a dealer or a commercial product or something as huge as the Kibbe Dome.
Levi:The inaugural season of Ain't That Something wouldn't be possible without the generous support of Truss Joist, a division of Weyerhaeuser. Truss Joist has been a great supply partner to Franklin Building Supply with their array of engineered wood products, including their marquee truss joists, which you may be surprised to learn was invented and first sold right here in Boise, Idaho. Now ain't that something? Future episodes will drop every one to two months. So be sure to subscribe to the podcast and your listener.
Levi:So you'll see the next episode when it arrives. So what do you think made Boise, Idaho? I mean, obviously, you have Art and Herald and and creating, you know, Trustech and what became TrustJoyce. They they called, you know, Boise home. So you had that, you know, anchor.
Levi:But what made the Boise area and in Idaho in general, a place that was conducive to this type of innovation? I mean, why was that lab in Boise, Idaho? And what made it work? What what's your sense of what what made it a good environment for, you know, that type of innovation to occur?
Gary:Well, I live in Charlotte, North Carolina, but I have been to Boise many times. And I would just call Boise a small, big city. And it has that kind of work ethic. It has the culture that would be attractive to me to relocate to Boise, Idaho, but it also has that outdoorsness. And so I think that's unique to being able to hire high talent engineers, wood scientists.
Gary:So we developed that kind of vibrant community. And once you get to three, the news is out. It grows and expands.
Levi:And they want to be with other people like that. Yeah.
Gary:And that culture became you know, TrustJoyce was creative, innovative. That's a culture any young scientist or any young engineer wants to be involved in, wants to be with a growth company.
Levi:I've said to folks before, I've been in Boise, Idaho for a little over nine years now. And I've had some similar observations about, you know, just the culture and the people here and why it's conducive, you know, to certain things in particular. But I think you think about Detroit, you know, you got this critical mass of people all obsessing about how to solve problems around transportation and vehicles in particular, right, making all the parts and pieces. And they've been at it for a long time. You know, it's an area of expertise.
Levi:If we go to Seattle and we're talking about aerospace or, you know, talking about telecom and, you know, a place like Dallas or, you know, there are different areas of the country that, you know, for a variety of reasons, ended up developing a depth of expertize around solving certain problems. I think Boise in particular, but Idaho in general, really has a depth of expertize around how to use wood fiber products to their full potential. And there are a lot of people here that have been doing that for decades. There's energy around it. There's expertise around it.
Levi:There's a you know, there's a critical mass here that makes a difference. And it just, you know, is a stronger and stronger magnetic pool. So it's one of the real strengths and heritages of, this area and guys like Art and Harold are critical pieces of that heritage and lineage. It has to start somewhere. It started here with just the forest being located here.
Levi:So that was helpful. But then some folks like Art and Harold saying, what could we do with this product that's never been done before? I guess one of the great, great strengths of this area of the country.
Gary:Well, I couldn't agree more. So I've been in the East all my life, Levi. But I came close to relocating in Boise. Very attractive. And I will use the word persona.
Gary:You start developing a persona that, hey, there's this think tank again. And the very best engineers, the very best wood scientists. And I grew by that. So I traveled a lot to Boise. And when you're around talent, you become smarter.
Levi:Right. Everybody around you is making you better. Yes. So that pool was to Boise. That does, that's where you and others in the industry look to and recognize is where here's a concentration of people that are the best at this.
Levi:They're, they're there in Boise, they're working on these types of products.
Gary:Absolutely. And I would take that intellect, my learnings, and take it to the East where we had exceptional growth. So I became a region engineer out of Charlotte, North Carolina, servicing really from Charleston, South Carolina up to the Northern Maryland market. That DC market exploded, and it's because I gained expertise from that Boise connection.
Levi:That's a great example of of of that exporting and rippling out, right, which I think is fantastic to to hear.
Gary:And one of the more funny things, Levi, is my son moved up to Washington DC, Suburban DC, buys a townhome, and I go down in the basement, and there is a truss Joyce silent floor. And I bet you I was the engineer that sealed those designs that went into that Stanley Martin home.
Levi:Now, let's be honest here. That kind of the first thing you did when you walked into that house? You wanted to go inspect the joists?
Gary:I am an engineer.
Levi:Well, I think that's a great segue to where we want to, you know, continue kind of following this timeline because truss joists ends up merging with another company brings perilam and timber strand to the mix to other engineered wood products. But it is so that happens in the 90s. But then we fast forward to February and Truss Joyce ends up getting acquired by Weyerhaeuser and your example of your son's house in DC. So a product that was invented in Boise, Idaho, initially only sold basically in commercial applications, eventually becomes a product that is in common use across the entire country today, there are copycat products out there, right? It is a it's a product that's used in many, many homes and regions across the country.
Levi:How did that year February acquisition by Weyerhaeuser play into TruckJoyce kind of, you know, propelling Truss Joyce even further in terms of its usage and reach across the country?
Gary:Yeah. And if I may, I'm going to back up a little bit to that. Macmillan Blodell, a Canadian company, was also very creative. Their big misstep, if you will, Levi, is they forgot about profitability. And so they had these two flagship products, Perilam and Timberstrand, that were in concept very good, but not profitable.
Gary:And so the merger, which 51% was Trust Choice Corporation, even though McMillan Bodell was three times bigger, that merger really was kind of the way those products became profitable and part of the portfolio. So you have three beams now. You've got Microlam, you've got Paralam, and you've got Timberstrain, all of them using engineered wood products like we had talked about, different wood fiber, maybe in composition strands versus veneer, different technologies, manufacturing, whether it's microwave, whether it's a heat convection, or whether it's steam injection. So all of them are different. There was solid growth, but we, TrustJoyce, struggled having raw materials.
Gary:To fast forward to your question, that Weyerhaeuser acquisition in February, in my humble opinion, that was forestry related. This expansion of Trust Choice was maybe a little shortchanged if they would have stayed by themselves. Certainly the financial resources of Weyerhaeuser and certainly the meshing of OSB in that it just made sense.
Levi:More vertically integrated at that point, because Weyerhaeuser get access to all the raw product, forests, and then all the way even through, you know, distribution and stuff that they have today. So it just, you know, you can see a lot of, you know, vertical integration there that that really has made a lot of sense for Trust Choice over the last now twenty five years.
Gary:And also broaden the engineered wood products. So I would have suggested suggested that we did engineered lumber products. We did beams and joists. Now with Weyerhaeuser, you have OSB, you have plywood, you have lumber. So you have a portfolio, a wider portfolio that fits into construction.
Levi:Right. An entire system really that you can Yes. Can can tap into. So that's actually great segue into another piece I want to hear a little bit a little bit from you on is about how software played into this. We're talking a lot about the forest and wood products and resins and other things.
Levi:But in previous podcasts, one of the things we've explored is you can have the best idea in the world, you can have the best product in the world, right? But you've got to be able to get it to the end user and get it them in a way that makes sense, both in terms of pricing, but you know, how they're really going to use this. And if it doesn't make sense for them, if they can't understand it, if they can't use it, again, you might have the best product in the world. It's at a good price. It doesn't present the use case that gets you over the hump and sustains you.
Levi:So help me understand how the software that TrustJoyce developed over the years, decades, helped its products be more effectively used and sold by dealers and in home builders?
Gary:Yeah, was a critical part. When I first joined the company, we used truss joist software to design our open web trusses, and they were custom designed.
Levi:So every one of them was a one off if we back up to the eighties? Yes. Okay.
Gary:Yes. Custom design, where what would be different would be a steel bar joist, you would pick an s SJ 18 that would have specific panels and so forth. Truss joists would have altering panels and would allow for that customization. Software also became critical in the growth of the company when we will launch the dealer program. And this is where some of that conflict that you talked about, and I think healthy discussion, is can a dealer use this software?
Gary:Or does TrustJoyce? Or does an engineer have to use it? Right. And you had to pry my hands away from that. And it requires trust.
Gary:It requires teaching. So you develop software, you have to teach the operators to be proficient in that software. I look at literature as being static, Levi. It's the worst condition or critical case condition. Software allows you the exact condition.
Gary:So it gives you more flexibility in the analysis and even details like COLS and so forth. It allows all that. And TrustJoyce developed their own software in the residential program. You may have heard of TJXpert and TJBeam. Those were developed in the, I'm gonna say, eighties, and they went through various algorithms and, you know, other companies working with partnerships and then, divestitures, but eventually, it's the same software that's used today called Javelin, which would be a modeling software, and ForteWeb, which would be a single member analysis.
Gary:And Forte Web last I checked had 50,000 subscribers that actively use that software.
Levi:One software like you're speaking of allows us today as a stocking dealer, you know, which again, we started doing the late 70s. But as that software as the trust shifted, and dealers were allowed to use that software more and the software got better, it just made the sell a lot easier and faster, right? And all those things just start to kind of compound. And over decades, you know, create an environment where a product can move through the entire system with a lot less friction and retain a lot more of the value add across the, you know, through all the different steps, and end up in homebuilders or framers hands to be used, you know, on the site, but all those things tie in together. And I think it's just kind of interesting to think about how critical software and technology is to moving wood fiber, right?
Levi:And those had to develop on a similar trajectory be used and sold like they are today.
Gary:Yeah, it certainly widened the sales footprint. And I also believe that software allowed credibility to all partners, credibility to TrustJoyce Weyerhaeuser, credibility to dealers like Franklin, credibility to an architect or engineer, then eventually to that homeowner or builder that purchases that product.
Levi:So you've been at this for forty years. Right? My math right there about forty years.
Gary:Don't date me.
Levi:I don't wanna date either one of us. I think most
Gary:I'm a very young forty year veteran, but yes.
Levi:So you've been at it for for around forty years. What are you excited about today in terms of where this industry is headed? We spent a lot of time talking about how it kind of got started from the early 50s and then through the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and 2000s. But today, what are you excited about in terms of where the industry is headed? What are you excited about in terms of where the organization is at Weyerhaeuser, which Trust Choice is a wholly owned subsidiary of Weyerhaeuser Day.
Levi:What excites you about the organization and what you can accomplish in a posture from 2025 and beyond as we spend a lot of time thinking about, you know, what got us to this point?
Gary:I don't mask the enthusiasm that I have for Weyerhaeuser. I am a spokesperson. What a great company to work for, and what a great industry to be involved. What has me thrilled is the idea of software, taking it to the next level, Levi. And what I mean by that is today, in the old days, we'd call them blueprints.
Gary:Many people don't even know what a blueprint really is, but design drawings. And you can do that whether they're hard paper drawings or whether they're design drawings by an architect, in CAD. And then we repurpose those in Javelin. And then we do that design, and that's an authentic structural design. The inoperability of taking those directly, that architectural drawing into Javelin, that's a great opportunity.
Gary:And that's going to happen in the next two, three years, and Weyerhaeuser will be part of that. So that has me thrilled. The second thing that has me thrilled is this whole construction cycle that, we produce products that go to a dealer that are shipped out to a job site, cut, nailed, and put in place. I think the wave will be next phase in similar applications where these will be built perhaps on job sites or in a factory, and they will be a cassette, and they will be lifted into a project. So that construction cycle will be dropped to days, weeks.
Gary:And I think that also solves some of the labor shortage. Now you have people that will be more of a plant focused manufacturing type of environment. So it will transform the construction industry. The framers will be doing something different. It may be more like an IKEA furniture, you know, assembly, and the dealer may no longer be a dealer, they may be a fabricator, like they made that jump into plated trusses.
Levi:Right.
Gary:But those are two noteworthy, I think, innovations that are coming up in the future.
Levi:Well, and this is true in any industry, but it's just really cute in construction where time is money. When you think about the resources that are needed on job site, whether that's a home or that's a commercial job site, the financing that's, you know, required to keep a project moving, anything that can reduce the time without compromising quality or safety is really appealing. I think one of the things that's exciting about this industry is there's a lot of opportunity in front of us to work smarter, not just harder. And it's not to say that hasn't been a focus for many decades now, but that opportunity still exists. Absolutely.
Levi:And for, you know, people that are maybe not exposed to this industry or part of this industry listening to a story like this, I think your your forty year career and as you talked about your unapologetic enthusiasm, both for the company and industry, one of the takeaways is this is an industry that provides real significant engaging opportunities for people that are maybe starting out in their career or thinking about a career change to be involved in construction projects and figuring out how to make how we put, know, homes or buildings together smarter, better, faster, all those things, those we've got as many opportunities in front of us as that as we do behind.
Gary:Absolutely. And Weyerhaeuser really has some, great stories, the whole sustainability. All of our wood products are SFI, certified framing products, sustainable forestry management, if you will. You know, there's a there's a slogan, Levi, on the front of our when you enter headquarters in Seattle, Washington, that Frederick Weyerhaeuser has that I truly think is cool, and it's this is not for us, not for your children, but for your grandchildren. And as I've aged, you dated me with that forty years, as I've aged, I think about that, I have grandchildren, and wood is part of a resource that will graduate to my grandchildren.
Gary:Trees. And that Idaho connection of how to take a tree and make it into an engineered wood product that makes a better home is a great story that continues on. It'll have chapters, but the story will continue. The book will continue.
Levi:And, and, and put a great legacy. Yeah, I love that, that quote and the idea that, you know, what, if we think more long term about what we're doing, I'm a big fan of, know, challenging myself and encouraging others to live life backwards, really think about the end game and work backwards from that. What what do you really want to achieve? What do you want future generations of your family or others to say of your work? And this isn't about, you know, doing something that, know, people are going to write books about, and you're a celebrity.
Levi:This is just about thinking more long term and working backwards. And the sustainability, you're talking about the full cycle, figuring out how to make better use of the resources that we have, and not just do that to be able to maintain and sustain those resources, but to actually improve the end product. You know, those are all things that are very long term in their orientation and, and have significant impact down the road.
Gary:When when I researched a little bit of the company going back, and I was there for part of it, but even before that, I just was taken by the goal setting, and that really is something that I do, both professionally and personally. You goal set. And when you make a mistake, I call it a misstep, and there's an opportunity to learn from that mistake. And yes, nobody wants to make them. And, yeah, sometimes I curse at myself for being stupid and being too aggressive or too busy, and I didn't devote enough time, But those are opportunities to make you a better person and and make Weyerhaeuser a better company.
Levi:Yeah, agreed. Well, thank you very much for the time today for, you know, being willing to share part of your story, but then also, you know, trust Joyce and you coming into that story, you know, midstream and where you're at with Weyerhaeuser today. I really appreciate your perspective and your dedication to this industry and your craft and carrying that forward for others to be able to hear.
Gary:Well, and thank you for the opportunity. It's it's been quite a journey. I consider this just a blessing to have been recruited by Trust Choice Corporation. And as that career involved, it's just been not only a job, it's been part of my life.
Levi:Thank you for listening to this episode of Ain't That Something. If you enjoyed the episode, please consider subscribing to the podcast in your listener and sharing the podcast or this episode with others. Thanks again to our season sponsor, TrustJoyce, and to our guests for graciously sharing their time and story. So go start, create, or build something surprising so I can share your story. Until next time.
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